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Martin_Kaine's Blog

by Martin_Kaine from Birmingham

Last Post 170 days, 15 hours Ago


Throughout all of recorded history the devil has taken a lot of heat. The devil has many names depending on who you ask. Almost every religion has a devil or some physical manifestation of evil or representative of Hell. We blame these demons and mignons of Hell for the evils in our world. We say they possess us and force us to commit crimes. They whisper in our ear and tell us it’s ok to snort that line of coke or go ahead and call an escort service if you are traveling out of town. No one ever has to know.  

 

Is this blame fairly placed or are we just passing the buck to an easy target? Let’s take another look at the original sin as believed by both Jews and Christians and let’s do so honestly and objectively.  

 Genesis 2: 15-17

15. And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

 16. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. 

 Ok, so why did God not want us to have the knowledge of good and evil? Did he feel it was too much responsibility for us? Did he like the idea of having a bunch of ignorant talking monkeys running around the garden naked? Why would God wish to deny us the knowledge of what is right and why leave us in the dark about what is evil? How were we to avoid what we did not know existed?

 

Genesis 3: 1-4 

 

1. Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

 

2. And the woman said unto the serpent, we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 

 

3. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4. And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die:  

 Satan is often called the prince of liars, but who lied here? She did not die. Adam did not die.  The lived out their lives and died at a ripe old age. Satan didn’t deceive anyone. He told her she would not die. She didn’t.

 Genesis 3: 5 

5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Is that not the same thing God said the fruit was? Satan told Eve exactly what the fruit was and what it would do. It did exactly what he said it would.

Genesis 3: 6-7 

6.  And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7.  And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

And the eyes of them both were opened just like the serpent said they would be. Where is the deception? Who put that tree in the garden to begin with? Have we not always been people who choose freedom over oppression? Who was it then that offered us knowledge and who was it that threatened to kill us if we took from a tree that he had put among us without giving us the knowledge required to avoid it?

God made an attempt to suppress our mental development. Satan freed us. This is a very logical conclusion, supported by the Bible itself. So why do we demonize the devil?

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brair read my blog view my photos
Jun 24, 2008 | 12:25 AM

Martin, that’s the same attitude and similar conclusion that Adam proclaimed to God in verse 12, “and the man said, the woman that thou gavest to be with me, she gave of the tree and I did eat”, and God didn’t buy it. Their innocence died. They disobeyed God and they died spiritually and became separated from God because of their sin.
The Serpent deceived by saying, “Hath God said, ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” when he knew that God had already said. And he lied when he said, “ye shall not surely die”.
Also, this shows that people DID have a choice given by God in the beginning and that they weren’t mindless or talkin’ monkeys; God created man in his own image. in It also shows that people when faced with one simple prohibition we can hardly make the right choices.
I love this verse: Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Your logic is flawed.. Whee Huuh! Ask Jesus. I’d almost pay to see one of those hare devils.

Martin_Kaine read my blog view my photos
Jun 24, 2008 | 9:06 AM

No, God didn't say "if you eat this I will separate you from me spiritually and that is what death means". That is not what was said. You are trying to turn God into a politician. lol

If God created us in his image, then we have certainly returned the favor.

brair read my blog view my photos
Jun 24, 2008 | 9:44 AM

Im’ sure that kickin’ them out of the garden and punishing them and allowing them to die physically is separation. Aren’t they dead? Whee Huuh!

Martin_Kaine read my blog view my photos
Jun 24, 2008 | 10:49 AM

Yea, true, now tell me what Satan had to do with any of that. Satan did no punishing, separating, or killing. So, right back where I started.

Why demonize Satan for God's actions?

Why did God put the knowledge of good and evil in a garden with two people who did not have the knowledge of good and evil?

It just seems like a set up to me. Adam and Eve got framed and they didn't even have the knowledge of good and evil to protect them. Then, only after having the knowledge to see their error, if there was one, they get punished.

If you are ok with that, God bless you, but I have a problem with it. The Bible doesn't give the details I need to understand it, so I am forced to either speculate on those details or just abandon my belief in the Bible.

I am driven by the imagination that God himself gave me. So if God did infact create me in his image, I'm sure he will understand why I ask questions.

iRobot1 read my blog
Jun 26, 2008 | 7:21 AM

Martin....I think you took the movie Devils Advocate way to serious.
The first man and woman were,simply put Gods children,void of sin. Right up to the time that the woman ate of the tree of knowledge and feed it to the man. It's all about choices we make....we don't always die a physical death from these choices. But more times than not we suffer a spiritual death or separation from God,for making these choices.
I believe that is the biggest mistake we make as people.....we don't shoulder the blame for our choices. That's why we have lawyers....lol

fargingbastige read my blog view my photos
Jun 26, 2008 | 4:30 PM

I ususally read the Faith Blogs and most certainly appreciate the fact that we actually have a Faith Blog on the website. However, as I am but a mere novice with all manner of religion and by all accounts not a biblical scholar, I usually read and attempt to learn and thus refrain from responding or posting myself.

Having said all of that, I'll give it a shot - my own take from what I know and believe:

God gave us all free will. We can do whatever we like, but must suffer the consequences of our actions. Had the tree not been there, there would have been no choice to make. By establishing the tree, God gave man the choice to make: listen to God and have all of the benefits associated therewith or ignore what God has said and suffer.

God does not want to force us to love and obey Him. He wants us to do it freely.

I'll probably suffer the fate of having some much more knowledgable person tell me how incredibly wrong I am in my own humble assessment of the post. That's OK.

Martin_Kaine read my blog view my photos
Jun 26, 2008 | 5:53 PM

No they won't, because that was a good answer. It still doesn't implicate Satan as being at fault, but a fine point none the less.

Maybe I need to make my motives a little more clear because I really expected a lot more responses and criticism for this blog. I think the radical satanic nature of it may have scared potential responders.

Listen, I am playing devil's advocate here. I am illustrating absurdity by being absurd. I am demonstrating how easy it is to spin an issue into whatever you want it to be but I also want to demonstrate that spin will never beat truth in the end.

This is an argument I expected to lose badly. The fact that I am not losing is a little disturbing.

mello08 read my blog view my photos
Jun 26, 2008 | 6:10 PM

I agree with you fargingbastige. We have a choice that God gave us. Whether we choose the right one is up to us. I do not find Kaine all satanic and I respect him for being honest. He just sometimed freaks me out on how he words things sometimes.

southerngold read my blog view my photos
Jun 26, 2008 | 9:41 PM

i'm no expert; the way i see it, big red tempted eve to disobey God - he did it by speaking half truths using scripture ... so i place blame squarely upon him. half truths are in essence lies. big red did tell Eve some things that would happen, but he did not tell everything, all consequences - so that's lying by omitting those consequences.

and i don't believe God minds when we have questions. God is all about love, He does not threaten or oppress. and it wasn't a literal, instant death that He was speaking of in my opinion. He wants all to be in Heaven - hence forgiveness, mercy, grace.

jannylee read my blog
Jun 27, 2008 | 12:06 AM

Martin I thought it was lovely,Is that your real picture if so hmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!! NICE

fargingbastige read my blog view my photos
Jun 27, 2008 | 9:44 AM

Yeah, I would have thought that would would have sparked a fury of responses. It gave a reason to think.

jannylee read my blog
Jun 27, 2008 | 12:00 PM

Yes I beleive in a Devil,being brought up Catholic I saw the devil's come to mass every sunday or hypocrite's as you lower48's call them.The Catholic church is full of them.When I was a little girl our Parish in Kelowna British Columbia,excomunicated my family because my mother had to abort a pregnancy to save her life.

Martin_Kaine read my blog view my photos
Jun 27, 2008 | 12:39 PM

...and it was their own hypocrisy and intolerance that you witnessed, correct, not Satan's?

SG, yes Satan tempted Eve to disobey God, but who was the good guy here? It was God that denied mankind the knowledge of good and evil and it was Satan that pushed us toward enlightenment.

Sure, the Bible blames the devil every opportunity but consider the source. God isn't going to inspire men to write a hatchet piece against him. Could the book be a little bias?

..and yes Jannylee that is a picture of me. Thankyou ;)

jannylee read my blog
Jun 27, 2008 | 9:39 PM

I guess your right,but in another comment you attacked my morals,I do not believe in abortion as a conveniance,only in cases like my mom's,or rape or incest.I do not agree with women aborting their pregnancy so they want be bothered if that were the case I would'nt have my 2 girls.

tj3891 read my blog view my photos
Jun 30, 2008 | 1:48 PM

he martin, a little too much peyote huhpass some over to jannylee, that psycho needs some mellowing out!

mello08 read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 6:47 PM

I can see where your coming from jannylee. Tj how is jannylee a hypocrit. Abortion shouldn't be used as a covinence. But if a pregnancy can end your life or you have been raped, some choses to abort. She didn't say anything hypocritical.

tj3891 read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 7:41 PM

the mellowing out i speak of is from a previous conversation mello08

BPDMotor6 read my blog view my photos
Jul 8, 2008 | 8:40 PM

It's all about free will. No one MADE them eat the apple.They were told not to but it was their CHOICE to disobey, the devil just helped the rationalize it. God could have simply not put the tree there and thingsa would have been fine, WRONG! He doesn't want robots, mindless sheep. He wants followers who CHOOSE to follow. Otherwise your just a slave. You can do what ever you want but for his sake at judgement there had to be freewill. Otherwise he could condemn you, because you could argue that you didn't have a choice and had to act the way you did. NOW when he passes judgement you have no excuses,no alibis and no recourse. It's all on us!

BPDMotor6 read my blog view my photos
Jul 8, 2008 | 8:56 PM

As for the Devil, I think you said it best in another blog Martin, too often we use him as a crutch. He played his part in the fall form creation, whether it was to torment man or God is a question we may never know the answer to. As a Christian I think he only has as much power over me as I'm willing to give him. BUt no I have no sypathy for him he made his bed so to speak and now HE has to lay in it! He chose and chose poorly!

noshamejamezzz read my blog view my photos
Jul 31, 2008 | 4:55 PM

hey dude I can't get you at that address,holler at me at noshamejamez@hotmail.com and by the way I am glad your not gay.

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Martin_Kaine

http://thedailymonthsbiwe
ekly.blogspot.com/_______
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My name is Martin Kaine. I am a resident of the Birmingham area. I am an amatuer poet, artist, photographer, and lawn chair theologian.______________
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Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Member Since: 4/4/2008